HollyShorts London INTERVIEW 2024
Jamie O’Rourke
calf
Writer/Director - Jamie O’Rourke
Producer - Gregory Burrowes & Ronan Cassidy
DEC, 4, 2024
A sinister farm accident leaves Cáit with a terrible decision to make.
Hello Jamie, it’s great to get to talk with you again. You had an incredible run with Scrap, was it hard to put all the buzz aside and start focusing on new projects?
It’s great to catch up again. Thank you for having me.
It looks like once a film is done, or at least in the case of Scrap and Calf, it’s a while before it gets into a festival run and sometimes sporadic so you kind of move on before they start doing well, if they do. So it’s the other way around for me, it’s hard to come back to engage the festival circuit for a film that you sometimes finished ages ago but also just great to see it get an audience.
What does it mean to you to be part of the 2024 HollyShorts London? Do nerves still set in or does it not bother you now?
It’s great to be part of the first HollyShorts London. Such a great lineup and their LA based festival is held in such high regard that the buzz for the new London iteration is high from the get go.
There are nerves but mainly around the idea of Q & A’s or public speaking. But yes those do fade a little. I think filmmakers speak about the film so often through its lifecycle of prep to post, whether that be with actors or crew or whatever, that you realise the moment someone asks you a question, you generally have a relative answer. So after a few Q & A’s it gets a little easier. Red carpets I tend to avoid unless I’m forced down one. People generally want to talk to the actors and I’m perfectly happy with that.
Calf won Best Short at the IFTA 2024, having being nominated for your debut Scrap in 2002, what did getting this type of recognition for your film mean to you?
It's great on two levels. To take the time to celebrate with and acknowledge everyone who collaborated with you. Often the director or producer gets to accept the accolade but anyone who makes films knows it's your crew and cast who determine the success of the film.
The other side of awards is that often those things can help you find the money for your next film and that’s what we’re all aiming for, to get to keep making films.
One of the amazing things is that it opens up the industry a little and you start to get to meet people whose work you admire. Dearbhla Walsh is one of Ireland’s best directors and since she saw Calf she has gone out of her way to put it in front of people and support it. She has also become something of a mentor. How she deals with the work, and her seemingly endless things to do, is something to behold. She is a powerhouse and has an amazing way with people. I think we all need to take note of those that can do it so well and create great work and yet handle the pressure and still open up their time, attention and kindness to others coming up in the industry. That’s something we should all carry on and emulate if we get a chance to make our way in such a difficult industry.
Internationally Calf has been selected at a wide range of festivals and picked up a slew of awards, including Best Narrative Short at Newport Beach Film Festival. What do you think it is about this film that’s connected so much with audiences?
It’s the theme. Domestic abuse is unfortunately universal and I think the film being selected at festivals throughout the world reflects that sadly. However we have hopefully made an authentic representative film and imbued the ending with tendrils of hope, disguised as they might be.
How much did your experience on Scrap help prepare you for Calf?
Enormously. I had no clue what I was doing when we made Scrap and relied heavily on my crew to fill in my gaps of knowledge. The same with Calf. I think the function of a director has only become clear to me through making those two films. Which is what short film making should be about I think. Primarily the thing I am learning most from film to film is how to relate to, and communicate with, actors.
Any bad habits you needed to break before you started shooting?
Yes. Specifically giving outcome based direction to actors and over-rehearsing the script.
Where did the inspiration for Calf come from?
I worked on a documentary as an editor in which women who had fled to domestic abuse shelters at one point in their life recounted their experience to camera. It was during the time the Domestic Violence Act of 2018 was being introduced to Ireland. Up until then, criminalising abusive acts in the legal sphere centred around the physical only. Coercion and mental and emotional abuse were not actions that you could be prosecuted for. In working on that documentary I became familiar with the statistics. One in particular sticks with me always; one in four Irish women has experienced some form of abuse from a current or former partner. If you know more than four women then you know someone who has faced abuse. That means everyone knows someone. I encourage people strongly to engage with the statistics on womensaid.ie There is still a lot of work to be done. Though emotional and mental abuse can be prosecuted now the burden of proof is very high and often it is still hard to get these cases through the courts successfully.
You have an incredible cast with Isabelle Connolly and Kate Nic Chonaonaigh, what was it like working with them?
Brilliant. They of course are what makes the film what it is. They are both phenomenal talents and I was incredibly lucky the first two actors I asked, which they were, agreed to come on board. Not only that, the amount of prep and research each did was above and beyond. We made this film during COVID so until we were on set, we had never met in person. That brought its own challenges but the truth is I couldn’t have made the film what it is without Isabelle and Kate bringing their experience and intuition to it.
And in the casting process did you have an idea of who you wanted to play Cáit and Aine?
Yes I pitched for funding knowing I would ask Isabelle and Kate first if we received the funding. We were lucky Virgin Discovers and Screen Ireland believed in the script, dark though it was, and lucky again Isabelle and Kate did so also.
Did you have any apprehensions about tackling any of the themes you explore in Calf?
Yes, of course. I think a film should be judged on two counts. Quality; is it good? And for me that covers everything from tone and structure, to performance and design etc. And more importantly authenticity i.e. is it representative? I think the former can only be achieved if the latter, representation, is in place.
Similar to freedom of expression. Yes, you can say whatever you want on X but that doesn’t mean there should be no consequences when you say fucked up, inappropriate, clueless or hateful things. If your film is not representative because you have no connection to your subject matter or you haven’t done the required research to make up for a lack of personal connection, if that is indeed possible, you should be called to account.
Domestic Violence is obviously a subject that should be approached sensitively. I think a lot of that work is done, or at least it should be, in the research and script editing phases. I was very lucky to have a great script editor in Eilish Kent who was a boon to an inexperienced writer such as myself.
What was the most challenging scene for you to write and to shoot?
All of it is a challenge to write as I find the process as tortuous as I do rewarding. None of it comes easy and often the first, second and third and beyond drill for oil is fruitless. At least in my case. Over time I find the editing of the script and indeed the rushes is where you find everything worthwhile.
I find the shoot less torturous. Not at all really actually. It’s adrenaline fuelled as you have to make decisions quickly. But in that there is less anxiety as you don’t really have space for procrastination. It’s a can you’re just kicking down the road to edit phase unfortunately but in the moment it’s make a decision and move on or lose time and light.
How close do you like to keep to your screenplay, are you flexible with your material?
I’m not protective of it from a secrecy point of view but then again I’ve made shorts and it’s rare anyone wants to read a short script anyway. I think that closeness is for the very famous heads who don’t want the script out in the world as people will know what it is before they’ve had a chance to present it as and how they want. That I get.
Am I flexible? In a way, yes. I struggle with dialogue on the page and want to mess about with that a lot until I hear it. I think a lot of that can be done in rehearsal. I don’t like leaving that until the shoot but at the same time I don’t want to over-rehearse the actual script. I’m beginning to find a process I like which is to rehearse with actors in their character but with scenes and scenarios that don’t take place in the film. That way the material doesn’t become tired to me but I get to see and be part of how their character is being developed and the voice they will employ.
In America, they’d call Calf your sophomore film after the critical acclaim of Scrap. Now that you’re two films in, what do you think you’ve learnt about yourself as a filmmaker and the stories you want to tell?
I’ve learned the stories I want to tell and how I want to tell them. More importantly I’ve learned the ways I don’t want to tell them. I think you can only make a certain type of film well if that is really what you err towards most when you watch film. For me dialogue and performance often separates those films from those I want to watch and those I don’t. And I don’t mean genre. I think it’s possible to traverse genres but only when your own sensibility informs your choices. I know a lot of people come back to him but in this case I think he’s a good reference point; Kubrick made a black comedy, a sci-fi, an historical drama, a horror, a psychological thriller etc. Genre wasn’t a barrier but his nose for performance, or at least a type of performance he was after, does link his films I think.
"Don't wait. Funding can take a while you won't get it without having something already to to show for it."
What are you currently working on?
I have a new film called The Afters funded by Screen Ireland, my last short I think, which we have just locked the edit on. It is an absurdist social horror about a working class Irish guy who gets trapped at a never-ending elitist wedding. It’s about social anxiety, class and capitalism. It was produced for my company Sugarloaf Films by Aisling Magill. We also just released a film called For the Land is Mine which was written by Aisling and myself, produced by her and her company Salty Pictures and will hopefully do a festival run soon. We’re tweaking the edit a little at the moment but looking forward to sharing it.
Irish film has always had such a uniqueness to it that, in the face of the Americanisation of film (look at UK film overall) has been able to maintain its authenticity and originality. Who are some of the Irish filmmakers that you’d want to put on our radar?
These are already starting to build international profiles and you probably have already come across them. A couple already made their first feature. If you haven’t though you will soon, given the strength of the work being made by each of them. They’re all contemporaries of mine and it really is amazing to see such talent coming from Ireland. Every year there are 25-30 short films made funded by the likes of Screen Ireland and Virgin Media which is unlike any other country where private investment is needed.
Edelle Kenny, Ayla Amano Canty, Mia Mullarkey, Brendan Amano Canty, Tania Notaro, Tara O’Callaghan, Tristan Heanue, Katie McNiece, Derek Ugochukwu, Nathan Fagan, Gar O’Rourke, Robert Higgins, Aisling Byrne, Paul Webster, TJ O’Grady Peyton, Ross White, Allyn Quigley, James Fitzgerald… I could go on. There are so many doing great work, it’s really great to see.
What advice do you wish you had been given when you started out?
Don’t wait. Funding can take a while and you won’t get without having something already to show for it.
So, make often. It is a slow process between film projects, even shorts. And definitely features. Try and find other ways to develop your skills.
Find your peers sooner rather than later. I seek out filmmakers on the same journey as me now because this has honestly been one of the best things about getting into it.
There is never enough budget. Never.
Seek recommendations and be recommendable.
And time and light, the two things that run out way faster than you hope. Don’t waste them.
And finally, what message do you hope your audiences will take from Calf?
Whatever it is they feel when they watch that final scene. I don’t really think too much about takeaways unless they're of the food variety, and that New Current is all-consuming. But with the film I just hope that those that watch it find some truth in it.